Rick Lowe (http://www.weblogbahamas.com)
Mr. Gregory Moss, an attorney and president of the Grand Bahama Chamber of Commerce took exception to this blog about the Bahamas Government opening a consulate office in Atlanta.
I have taken the liberty of posting his entire letter to the editor of the Freeport News below.
While I have added a brief response at the end, I will respond to him via the press as well.
Response to criticism of Atlanta consulate office opening
Publication: The Freeport News
Date: September 04, 2009
Dear Editor,
I am not usually taken with the idea of addressing national issues through letters to The Editor but feel compelled to do so in light of a letter which was published in your newspaper on Monday, August 31, 2009 from Rick Lowe in relation to the recent opening of The Bahamas Consulate Office in Atlanta, Georgia on August 20, 2009.
In that letter, Lowe raised various concerns about the opening of the consulate in general and the "wonderful fanfare" associated with doing so in particular.
For my part, I attended that opening as president of The Grand Bahama Chamber of Commerce and as counsel to one of the three private companies that co-sponsored the event and must respectfully disagree with Lowe's imputation that the opening of the consulate was either unnecessary or a waste of tax payers money.
Atlanta is home to the Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, which is the busiest airport in the world with a recorded 90 million passengers and 970,824 flights having passed through it in 2008. It is also the primary hub for Delta Air Lines, AirTran Airways, Delta Connection, and Atlantic Southeast Airlines. The Delta hub alone is the largest hub in the world.
Additionally, Atlanta itself is one of the fastest growing cities in the United States and is the most populous city in the Southeastern United States. It has the third largest concentration of Fortune 500 companies in The United States and more than 75 percent of the Fortune 1000 companies have a presence there. It is also the corporate headquarters for the Coca-Cola Company, AT & T and Delta Airlines.
In short, Atlanta represents the most concentrated opportunity for attracting tourists and business to The Bahamas when compared to anywhere else on the Southeastern seaboard of the United States and the only real question is why The Bahamas has taken so long to establish the consulate general's office there.
As to the costs of the opening ceremonies for the consulate general's office, I must again respectfully disagree with Lowe. I was there and can confirm that the corporate sponsorship of the event was evident. The main event was held on the roof-top lounge of The Atlanta Chamber of Commerce and was, to be frank, quite modest with the cultural events being held in an adjoining public park.
The Royal Bahamas Police Band and The Grand Bahama Youth Choir were indeed present but from my inquiries I was made to understand that the opening of the consulate was timed to coincide with the Police Band's attendance (under the auspices of the Ministry of Tourism) to perform at the Shriners Convention, which was held in Atlanta from August 16-20 and that The Grand Bahama Youth Choir travelled to Atlanta at their own expense having driven from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta to perform at a local YMCA forum in honour of the former United States Ambassador and noted Civil Rights Leader Andrew Young.
It would appear that rather than being a waste of tax payers money, the event was coordinated to attract private sector sponsorship and to maximize the presence of the Police Band and the Youth Choir.
I definitely endorse the idea of frugality in government spending, but I also fully support the idea of the government acting proactively in positioning The Bahamas ahead of the curve in attracting a greater potential share of tourism and business opportunities from the largest hub and one of the fastest growing cities on the South-eastern seaboard of The United States. That is important for The Bahamas as a whole but is especially crucial for the island of Grand Bahama.
Yours sincerely,
Gregory K. Moss
I would like to thank Mr. Moss for his attempt to respond on the governments behalf in an effort to clarify some of the points I raised but he has left so much unsaid/unanswered.
The point about Atlanta being an airline hub and clients we need is acceptable, but that's the government PR in support of the consulate office. There's no real substance there.
The information that the government made every attempt to save money where possible is also good.
However, here's a brief list of what's left unanswered in my view:
- How many clients come through Atlanta because it's a hub compared to Georgian's leaving Atlanta to come here?
- What did the opening of the office and the attendant fanfare cost?
- What will the ongoing costs be?
- How much did it cost to buy the house?
- What is our exit strategy if it doesn't work etc.
- Could we have tapped the Atlanta/Georgia market in a more cost efficient manner when we consider our country's economic condition at this time?
There is certainly a lack of accountability where the government is concerned and as president of the Grand Bahama Chamber of Commerce, Mr. Moss should be encouraging transparency, not attempting to justify the expenditure without the numbers in my not so humble opinion.
Didn’t our PM say last week that our country is out of money and that we must borrow to pay our current expenses.. Guess the Bahamas is in good company(?) as that is exactly what PM Brown and President Obama has said.. Has any of these characters ever thought that debts have to someday be paid off?? It becomes more apparent every day that the next generation of Bahamians will have a far lesser standard of living than their parents have experienced.. A recent poll just released today shows that 51 percent of Americans feel the same way about their next generation .. Debt leads to Deficits then currency Depreciation.. When will they ever learn.. The three D’s above create only Destruction and Depression in any economic system.. So let the good times roll, open offices in Atlanta and else where.. Why not we only have to borrow more money to keep them going.. Do you really believe that the costs justify the benefits?? What is next a consulate Chicago?? Oh sorry America the “Boys from Brazil” beat you out..
An excellent list of unanswered questions Rick.
Our Bahamian officials love to put on a good show, never mind the costs – that is just the small issue of borrowing more money!
These embassies, with all the attendant costs would be bad enough during good economical times but at a time like this – insane!
Thanks Tradewinds:
Yes it’s curious how people like Mr. Moss get caught up in the trappings and forget the damage they are doing to future generations.
But what’s $150 million more? And $150 million more than that?
You got it. Another failed state.
Thanks Dr. Sweeting.
I sent a response to the Freeport News and it’s set to come up tomorrow morning.
Mr. Moss’ whom I have never met, seems to have taken my remarks personally.
Maybe he feels a bit guilty of partaking in the goodies the Bahamian taxpayer is saddled with paying for?
Either that, or he really doesn’t understand the consequences of all this government spending and debt.
I think you should losen the narrowness of your mind around this matter and think strategically – Countries , just as business must think and be proactive for its future development and subsistence. This is true especially for developing nations as the Bahamas – and it is with other developing nations in the region and world wide – we are competing.
Understand that the iron sheen has fallen and we are living in a one world economy more than ever before – and just as in your respective business, there exist market share and competition for its scarcity !!
So too is for counties in this region where -((albeit we seeking to diversify our economy tourism)) – direct foreign investment are important to this country with its current multiplier system
The spending (( maybe in bad taste at this time)), is an investment to the need to provide continued interest in the country through banking, imports and exports, tourism and to further position the country’s opportunites for econimic xpansion upon the revamping of the USA economy.
This is a new world and you must pay to play. And you must play to sustain and therby improve your nations economic and financial footing.
Now Lets Go Blogging!!
Thanks again Mr. Hanna:
See the blog scheduled to appear this morning. It’s my response to Mr. Moss sent to the Freeport News.
The issue is government transparency and waste.
If you are going to “pay to play”, you got to have the money.. The Bahamas is broke, National Insurance is fast going broke, what’s next on the list., It could be you.. Wake up Bahamas, we could be in the ninth inning.. Our national debt is bringimg us down.. Even the mighty United States has become beggars in the world capital markets.. No one is buying their debt.. Hay China can you spare a dime??
Tradewinds …..Sounds like you are either echoing the failure of capitalism – or embracing the Chinese style of governance/ a mixure of socialism and capitalism – a modern day dada to the opponents of governments and their respective ability to join capitalism and socialism for the betterment and advantage of its nation and people for the future.
Yes Mr Lowe I understand that your response to MR Moss is about government transparency and waste. I addressed the reasons why a strategic move as such can aide the Bahamas in the future …. and how it can help position the country toward a greater return in the future while the US gov. does all it can to improve its economy – those in the know understansd that developing nations, must do all it can to position itself for the future as best as they can…… every non developing, but industrialized nation is similarly doing the same.
We are in a new era –
Its about competition – thats why I made examples on choices a business owner has to make when competing for the scarcity of the market share with other similar size and innovative companies.
Strategic forcasting for greater investment capital / projects in the country
is essential to a developing Nation – So too is the diversification of the economy in as much as possible to develop.
Lets not just complain …….. blindly, without understanding , first the dynamics of the issue and how it impacts the country, its growth, international rating and perception of our ability to be a player in the international community – the latter being essential to the advancement of all our people in the bahamas.
Now Lets Go blogging!!
Dear Mr. Hanna:
Seems to me Tradewinds is echoing the failure of government not Capitalism.
Here’s his point that I think you overlooked:
“Debt leads to Deficits then currency Depreciation.. When will they ever learn.. The three D’s above create only Destruction and Depression in any economic system..”
We cannot continue to spend as if money is going out of style.
One day, one generation of Bahamians will have to pay the piper.
Is that day coming sooner than the political class had hoped?
Rick, move to the head of the class.. This has nothing to do with capitalism or any other economic system.. It is irresponsible government spending under any form of economic system.. Spending in excess of revenues create Deficits which must be financed.. Deficit spending brought the Soviet Union (communism) down in the late 80’s, today the United Kingdom (socialism) is broke and the United States (capitalism/mixed economy) is in serious financial trouble following a path to economic Decline and even Destruction.. It is not the economic system, but the imprudent spending by governments.. Mr Lowe you have earned an A .. Mr. Hanna you get a D.. But Sir your insights are most constructive.. These are very trying times for our beloved Bahamaland..
Gentleman you guys talk a lot about debt — DEBT is a part of the free market system and well accepted on wall street and Downes street as well it is so for banks, corporations, hedgefunds and yes even amoung countries – why do you think the creation of the IMF and World Bank, etc exists…… EVERY NATION HAS DEBT – and used for strategic advancement ….. because the international economy is down – are u saying that the country should not take action in its forecasting – that is well accepted by chamber of commerce(s) in both countries and economists at home and abroad as a good move toward attracting greater investment in the country.
The USA is in tremendous debt, the UK is in DEBT , Russia is in DEBT === its a part of the system … surplus vs debt is always a scale everyone seeks to have tilted to the side of greater return ….
You enjoy the benefits of a free market/capitalist system but you criticize the efforts to make a competing developing nation as the bahamas stronger ….. Tell the readers exactly – what spending in the current budget would you cut? sir … and in what budget was the expense of the new consulate office in ATL allocated from ….. and exactly Sir, what is it that sits in falacy in your mind with regarding the reasoning Mr Moss expressed as to the justification of opening such an office in ATL…
Keep Blogging!!
Mr. Hanna makes it sound as if “being in debt up to your eyeballs” is some how OK?
If everyone exercised that view there would be a total collapse of the economic system as we know it
For example; do you think Bahamas Customs will take an IOU from me the next time I enter the country with my Walmart purchases?
Isn’t the current state of the “Global Economy” the result of this type of thinking?
Sadly, national pride aside, in terms of our country’s economy and financial condition, we have become a “Banana Republic”.. Only in our case, the politicians have eaten the banana and all the people have left is the peel.. Just today it was reported that the IMF has granted the Central Bank $178.7 million is SDRs.. I never thought that the day would come that the Bahamas would fall under the harsh hand of IMF.. I thought SDRs were for banana republics.. Oh we all know now as we are beginning to realize the sad truth.. Believe me the IMF is not the piper you want to have to pay…
Thanks for all the comments everyone.
The central point that gets missed by so many people is government is too damn big.
The more we call on it to do for us, the bigger it gets, and the more resources it takes from potential growth in the private sector and the more it borrows.
Hence we are where we are.
It’s not that borrowing is bad. In fact it comes in quite handy sometimes, but when you are in debt beyond your ability to repay…welcome to 2009.
It’s simply unsustainable.
Thank you Rick – now you are really breaking analyzing my response to what I have written in response to your initial statement – instead reacting with emotion to what it written – you have demonstratd the ability to synthesize with logic and reasoning – my kind of person !!
But Rick – I dont think no one here is missing the point of what you are advocating…. in the size of government – The technicallity of the need for spending versus revenue – In exercise, deternmines the size and depth of the role of gov. in a given nation …..
No i dont agree with out of control spending – but I do understand the dynamics of government, policy and international agreements – The World Bank has exhorted the need for industrialized nations to deposit more monies in the Bank to curtail the depletion of existing reserves … the latter was made possible by the down turn in the world economy and the demands from nations around the world to access borrowing ……. the WB has declared that if such a deposit is not made – the monies available for loans will be rationed.
I say this … some of what this country is going through is basicaaly due to a reduction in Revenue – but the future is still there to be had, so therefore systemsto attract and maintain current levels of revenue must be sought.
Better yet – Mr Stanford ,you should be spending that money in the counrty – we are too much of an inporting nation as it is now to have raw dollars leave the country to the largest transnational retailer in the world –
It appears you guys complain about what everyone else is doing – but fail to look at your own actions toward the derilection of the company – just being a business owner or of wealth does not give you entitlement to complain about everything – bring solutions , lets talk about solutions.
AND no I do not think its ok – to have debt to our eyeballs – such a comment lacks insight to what was written – an obvious reaction geared to emotion rather than logic and reasonsing.,,,,,
No the global economy problems stems from noncompatibility of emerging markets with established ones – thus creating an imbalance, furthermore nations have been seriously contemplating a change to the present reserve currency – from dollar to another form or something created by the UN……. ?… so stop this redamentary thinking on the Bahamas economy – that all our problems are associted to HEAVY GOV SPENDING ….. this is simply not the case – ……
As a matter of fact / wether u beleive it or not – the bahams shares the thrid highes GDP and median salary next to USA and Canada respectively ….. and has been exhortedly praised for a greater level of fiscal discipline – even more so than the reat of the Caribbean ……
Mr SAndford get a grip and start speaking to the issues with examples and fact, and stop with the over inflated emotion to which to which you are not addressing adequately.
The attack on Mr. Sanford is a page right out of Cuban economic planning.. A man has a basic right to spend the fruits of his labor on his basic needs and where he chooses.. Only in central planned economies is the consumer limited to distribution outlets controlled by the central government.. Where ever a communist controlled government has tried to control the distribution of goods and services within the economy, it has met with complete failure.. You like examples so try any of the former centrally planned economies.. Hope to see you soon in Walmart Mr. Sanford..
Like it or not, the Bahamas does not have adequate funds to pay its current expenses.. Our PM has said that we have to borrow to pay our current expenditures.. If you want examples of wasteful spending just try reading the daily newspapers.. Just last week, Larry Smith wrote an excellent analysis on waste at the Hotel Corporation and the $100 million dollars of money spent by the Corporation that has been a total waste.. Then there is the corruption in government which has turned into a national pastime.. Volumes can be written on wasteful spending by the Bahamian government with has no accountability.. Just look for example at the Development Bank which borrowed $28 million from our National Insurance funds.. With 70% of the Bank’s portfolio in default, how in the hell can we call it a ” development” bank?? Perhaps that figure is much higher as the institution is trying to put on a pretty face.. When was their last audit released?? Have they paid any interest to the lender on that loan??
Unless our government begins to control its deficit spending, there may not be a meaningful future to look forward too.. Wake up Bahamas before it is to late.. The debt clock at the Nassau Institute is ticking and it scares the hell out of me..
An interesting dialogue.
Some of Mr. Moss’s facts and figures are obviously regurgitations from the Atlanta Chamber of Commerce propaganda. Everyone knows that the largest economic engine in the South Eastern United States is The South and Central Florida Metroplex. Maybe Mr. Moss intentionally excluded South Florida.
Does the Bahamas need a consulate in Atlanta? Maybe. However all this is a minor issue compared to the real problems affecting the Bahamian economy and existence. As the same IMF you referenced has reported in some of their studies, perhaps the greatest problem the Bahamas faces like other third world countries is the tremendous Brain Drain and the resultant consequences in its inability to compete effectively with the competition in the global economy.
Another major problem is the mind set that some on this blog has evidenced, an overwhelmimg failure to recognize the true position of the Bahamas in the global scheme of things. Yes some reports have said that we have the third highest standard of living in the western hemisphere, but what does that really mean? is it a false positive, are we self sustaining, are we a parasitic economy and society, do we have anything to be proud of as a productive nation, did we steal or became involved with dubious activity to gain this false prosperity, and how long can it last if its even a reality?
Lets wake up, elect and demand responsible govt and do something to make ourselves a responsible respected , productive member of the global economy, instead of borrowing, cheating, and lying our way to a false sense of respectabiliy.
For years we lied to ourselves that we were the greatest tourism machine in the Caribbean if not the world. Now the real figures have started surfacing in the past few years and those of us who care to look can see the real picture of other Caribbean competitors whipping our tails and laeving us in the dust. Lets not be delusional. Lets wake up and really do something productive.
Interested’s comments are well taken.. But we must remember that no country can deficit spend its way out of recession.. That policy was a failure in the United States during the 1930’s, and it was only WWII that concentrated production on the war time effort brought the country out of depression.. When the war was over, the United States fell back into recession again..
The Bahamas is no exception to the rule.. Opening a consulate office in Atlanta is perhaps a foolish waste of money when our country has to borrow funds to pay its current expenditures.. Most tourist activities are inter-airline transfers that have no need for such an office.. Yet there maybe another less obvious reason.. Atlanta has fast become a major hub for the transportation and distribution of illegal substances.. Caribbean gangs actively have been moving from South Florida to the Atlanta hub.. Need I say any more..
I’LL POST THIS AGAIN FOR THE INTELLECTUALS HERE!! WE ARE IN A GLOBAL MARKET – THE IMF REPORT ON THE BAHAMS IS SIMILAR TO ALL DEVELOPING NATIONS AND THE BRAIN DRAIN YOU SPEAK OF IS AN INTERNATIONAL OCCURENCE – SKILLED PROFESSIONALS WILL BE TARGETED AND RECRUITED FROM ALL OVVER THE WORLD – THE LAST WAVE OF THIS WAS IN THE 90’S IN THE TECH INDUSTRY , COUPLED WITH THE NURSING EXPLOSION AT THE SAME TIME …. AND AT PRESENT ENGINEERING – RESPONSE FROM THE US RESULTED IN A HIGH NUMBER OF NEW RESIDENTS IN AMERICA AND THE ISSUANCE OF US H1B VISAS SKYROCKETED –
SO WHEN YOU SPEAK ABOUT THE BAHAMS DO IT WITH KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING, WE ARE IN A GLOBAL MARKET AND ECONOMY THE PROBLEMS FACED BY THE BAH ARE ONES IN PART AS BYPRODUCTS TO EMRGING MARKETS AND A SHIFT GLOBLAL ECONOMICS – ……
AND ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THE BAH CONSULATE IN ATL IS SET UP FOR THE DISTRIBUTION OF DRUGS AND OR THE CUDDLING AND ADVOCACY FOR GANG ACTIVITY – YOU SEE TRADEWINDS – THOSE COMMENTS ARE ……. (deleted) AND ….. (deleted) AND YOU AND LOST CREDIBILITY WITH ME
No need to get carried away because you might disagree Hanna. Intellectuals do not do that.
There are countless Bahamian parents who do not want their children returning here because of the crime etc, so that contributes to the brain drain.
I don’t think Tradewinds suggested that the Atlanta Consulate was set up to facilitate the drug trade. Please re-read the comments.
As usual Rick you got it.. It is not only Bahamian parents, but Bahamian students as well that choose not to return home to an empty economy where there is little opportunity for personal development.. This has nothing to do with the brain drain effect, but is the result of rational decision making.. With the quality of our system of education, one has to wonder why there would be a brain drain here anyway.. That might be the subject for further thought.. Certainly the large number of Mexican, Chinese and Filipino works here in the Bahamas opens the economic question of the global labor drain .. Could it be that Bahamian labor is lacking in productivity and is excessive in cost?? Our cost to labor productivity ratio is near the bottom of global comparisons.. Globalists please take note..
Please dear proponents try to convince me that our money is not being wasted in the opening of a Consulate Office in Atlanta.. A simple cost/benefit analysis will do.. Lets not forget the basic reason and purpose for the establishment of such an office is to service the needs of Bahamian nationals when such representation is necessary.. “Hay man get me out of this jail.” Just check out the offices in Jamaica, Miami and other offices in the United States.. You may be surprised in what you discover.. They say where there is smoke, there is fire.. Perhaps there may be such a need after all.. Only time will tell..
Intellectuals are not sorted by their passion – but by the facts they present.
Students are considering not returning to the bahamas as the same reason many F1 Visa foreign students do!!!! more money and demand for their respecticve field of study.
Wow..this is more fun than reading Glenn Beck’s best seller “Arguing With Idiots.” But then this reasoning could be right out of Steven Potter’s writings as well..
A few words for our Intellectualist… Intelligence relates to or involves the mental process of abstract thinking and systematic reasoning void of emotional thought.. Therefore an Intellectual is one that has a highly developed ability to think, analyze, reason as well as understand especially with the context of an inter-disciplinary thought process..
From a philosophical perspective, it is the belief that true knowledge comes from rational reasoning.. It is a doctrine that all that can truly be called knowledge is derived from one’s ability to rationally think, reason and comprehend…
Just thought you might like to know..With thanks to Professor Mason Hammond, Pope Professor of Classics, Harvard University who opened many eyes that were closed..
I’ll repeat – Intellectuals are not sorted by their passion – but by the facts presented …..
Facts can only be permitted through the analysis of ones thought process absent unreasonable emotion – to ensure , nonetheless; the facts derived thereof are inclusive to logic and reasoning.
Thought absent feeling is limited –
Action absent thought is meaningless ……
Unlike other mammals on earth – the human being mind in relation to thought-before-action, consists of the ability to apply logic, reasoning, and feeling(emotion), all esssential in the decision making and discernment of the human mind. Other mammals – operate dormantly on logic and reasoning only, hunt, eat, sleep …… So does the so called athiest))
The lessons you have gained, (congradulations) – are no different from what I have said – if an intellectual was sorted by (unreasonable/unprescribed) emotion toward the end to his findings the words spoken would be meaningless – however if sorted by facts – through logic and reasoning in its findings – the info becomes absorbable by rational minds…..
We are on the same page – so relax the unreasonble emotion in your analysis –
“Tradewinds suggestion as to why the Bah Consulate Office in ATL is being considered”………..Yet there maybe another less obvious reason.. Atlanta has fast become a major hub for the transportation and distribution of illegal substances.. Caribbean gangs actively have been moving from South Florida to the Atlanta hub.. Need I say any more..
“My response to Tradewinds reference on his opinion on the purpose of ATL Bah Consulate Office” ………..AND ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THE BAH CONSULATE IN ATL IS SET UP FOR THE DISTRIBUTION OF DRUGS AND OR THE CUDDLING AND ADVOCACY FOR GANG ACTIVITY? – YOU SEE TRADEWINDS – THOSE COMMENTS ARE ……. (deleted) AND ….. (deleted) AND YOU LOST CREDIBILITY WITH ME
“Ricks’ response to my question”……..I don’t think Tradewinds suggested that the Atlanta Consulate was set up to facilitate the drug trade…
I think its quite evident what Mr Tradewinds think the purpose of the Bah Consulate office is intended for…… in his mind …… How can such words absent logic, reasoning and rational emotion be displayed in representation of a matter as pertinent to the understanding of so many …… This is not evidence of a rational mind ,, but a far fetched one … catapulted on the waywardness of thought and ferry tailed on emotion.
You want to try me again Mr Tradewinds … I can corner you at every turn … becuse I see how you think through your symbolic style and tone …… ball is in your court.