by Adrian Gibson
No, Joan Thompson, I do not feel that Israel should sanction it’s own demise. That is not my argument. And, whilst I understand that every nation has a right to defend itself–my question is: Why is Israel destroying the infrastructure and the lives of inhabitants of a nation that never attacked them?!
The fact is this–Hezbollah killed 8 Israeli soldiers…………not innocent Lebanese citizens nor its military. So why are so many innocents being killed in the crossfire? More than 500,000 persons have been displaced; more than 300 Lebanese civilians killed; oil and gas outlets, bridges, roads, etc all destroyed…………..and this is acceptable?
Why couldn’t Israel have organised some special forces, entered Lebanon quietly and dealt with the leadership of Hezbollah? Why must so much innocents suffer? Yes, I know that several Israeli’s have been killed by Hezbollah rockets and other terrorist acts, but how many more Lebanese and Palestinians have suffered the wrath of Israeli retaliations and bombings? The Israeli response was harsh and brutal……AND DISPROPORTIONATE. Let us be fair….both sides have done wrong here…Hezbollah by provoking Israel and Israel in its response where blantant disregard is show for Lebanese lives.
And Joan, in a democratic country, do you find it right that another country can bomb the government offices of democratically elected officials and government ministries…..how would you feel if Cuba did it to us? And again, I said, would you condone it if the US attacked Mexico if a few Mexican drug dealers/hooligans launched missiles into its territory—I didnot say the Mexican army? Should all of Mexico then suffer?
And ole Uncle Sam just sits by like a cheshire cat and watches…..boy oh boy, talk about a superpower!
This article might help you Adrian:
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=071906F
I read the article Rick. However, my opinion on this situation, from a human and historic standpoint, remains unchanged. I honestly think I’m being mighty fair here…both sides are to blame for this conflict.
Unfortunately none of us should ignore the journey it took anyone to get to their current position.
The same applies to Israel in this case.
The minute we begin to think of this conflict as being clear-cut is the minute we begin to misunderstand it. I believe that Israel’s response is disproportionate, but know also that it is typical of the kind of paranoia that governs Israeli military action in general, and which has (perhaps justifiably, in the beginning) governed that action ever since 1948.
The first Israeli government, being essentially the remnants of a terrorist force led by Menachem Begin (it was his bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 (http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac10.htm ) that eventually led to the departure of the British as administrators of Palestine and the subsequent creation of the nation of Israel in 1948), responded as it did because it understood very well terrorism and its tactics. The Israelis are not blameless, although they are certainly vulnerable. Moreover, since the withdrawal of Egypt from the conflict in the 1970s, the strength of Israel, supported as it has been by the USA, is difficult to challenge. Israel’s response is bullying, typical of its activity in its “own” territory (the West Bank, which is not legally Israeli land, but has been ever since its annexation in 1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank )), disproportionate — and worrying.
I also know though that it is virtually impossible to find a balanced view of the situation coming out of the USA, or anywhere, for that matter, and that the only way of even approaching a position is to look at the situation from many angles. To take one too quickly, I believe, is unwise. There are very very few people writing anywhere — and especially in English — who have an objective take on this conflict.
Here are links to some very different views, some from within Israel itself.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738739.html
http://www.moorishgirl.com/archives/004154.html#004154
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/07/20/EDGOBIPVBV1.DTL
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002875591
Thanks Nicolette. I’m checking out these links….I’m glad you can see beyond Israeli propaganda and the usual “self defense” pretext.
And Rick, I dont think I’m ignoring Israel’s history, I’m think I’m trying to fairly show that Israel is no angel here. Israel’s history is closely tied to that of the Palestinians, and in many cases, Israel has been the aggressor, the one to respond with overwhelming, decimating force.
Israel is armed to core by the US, who frequently throw billions of dollars in aid at them yearly….and the Palestinians, well they continue to suffer.
Look, the US must truly be a superpower and stop pandering to Jewish interests in Washington.
Research the history of Israel, see how it has violated UN resolutions that it felt did not suit its interests and then notice how it hypocritically calls for them when it does. Look, terrorism is wrong…I agree 100%……but terrorism by states should not be ignored and seen as self-defence.
I do recognize that both the Israel people and Arabs have suffered due to terrorism and policies by their leaders that has led to loss of life….but lets look at history….let hostory speak for itself.
Would you like it if a few of my friends and I, armed with shot guns, came to your house and bulldozed it, or better yet, took (annexed) your propoerty and made it an extension of my own while daring you to do something? Would you like it if the police and any other law enforcement operation around the world stood and watched this, not defending you?
Let’s agree for the sake of argument that Israel has gone over the top. How do you get Hezbollah et al to cease and desist with their reported bombings and other tactics to push Israel into the sea?
Israel agreed to the “great settlement” and Arafat walked away from the table.
Do they all really want peace?
Well Rick, you asked the key question. What we do is try to get back to the UN resolution of 1947 or something close to it, where Israel observes the boundaries previously agreed upon and exits Palestinian lands. That, I feel, is the only way it seems peace will occur. Most of the fighting is because many Muslims feel that Israel has violated their boundaries and annexed lands without remorse or regard for the set resolution.
I dont know if they really want peace–both Israel and Palestine–but I feel that any remnant of peace can only come from observing the 1947 resolution.
Further, whilst Arafat had the opportunity to attain a Palestinian state, we must remember that Israel had conditions–such as–Jerusalem would not be included in the deal. We all know that in the 1947 resolution Jerusalem belongs to Palestine, particularly East Jerusalem. They have long sought to have this as their capital. This I believe may have been a reason why Arafat and those could not accept Israel’s deal. But I refuse to make excuses for Arafat, who I admit, had some questionable events surrounding him.
Russia and other nations at one point discontinued relations with Israel after it annexed Jerusalem…we all know the annexations were wrong.
How do we stop this crisis? The US must intervene….the world must! Israel must be made to pay for the destruction to Lebanon and the Palestinians-Israelis must return to the negotiating table with a view to enforcing the 1947 UN resolution or something close to it. Israel must stop with the excuses–now the excuse is that Hamas was elected government and they want nothing to do with them; before it was Yasser Arafat was a terrorist among other excuses…….Not only could we ask if the Muslims want peace, but we could also ask if the Israeli’s and its mighty force want peace or to completely remove the Palestinian people from their territories and annex all lands into modern day Israel.
What prompted Israel to annex the additional land Adrian?
With regard to the US, they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Are they not?
I agree with this brief from Chritopher Preble at Cato: http://www.cato.org/new/pressrelease.php?id=43
Why can’t the great UN settle it?
Rick, if Cuba annexed our land, would you be concerned about their fallacious reasons why? If I came and took your property, would their be any reason that I could provide to make you happy….No i guess!
The US would not be damned either way–they would should that they are fair and just. That what the world needs from them….not supporting this reckless aggression.
The UN has no real powers these days. Besides, Lebanon moved a motion for a cease fire, wasnt it dare Uncle Sam that blocked it?
Sorry about the spelling errors….I dont know how to correct after I post.
Interesting, Adrian states he does not expect Israel to sanction its own demise then follows it with an argument for why it should.
Nevertheless he agrees Israel should defend itself, but not use explosives or similar weapons.
Would a Public Relations campaign do the job? Imagine Israeli youth on their knees holding up signs begging the Hezbollah in their black suits and covered faces to please go away?
Okay Adrian, you seem to know what Israel should do, tell us what it is. Only please do not say “cease fire”. It hasn’t worked for fifty years and why perpetuate the myth that it will?
Oh Joan, why would you want to spin my arguments. I have said what i thought should happen in this situation….no begging as you say…and that is that.
I will not blindly support any argument or nation without first examining all the facts. I am being as fair as possible here…and I wish that my arguments be taken as that. Joan…this is the no spin zone!